I have profiled myself saying that my main interest is the ontological status of the self.., so.. although the transhumanist is taking a break, it’s got to be time for a little chat about this mystery..
I was studying psychology for a while, but got completely stuck pondering this mystery. I felt that an exam in the psychology of personality should be more than just about individual traits, the developement of personality and other similar boring questions, and ought instead to tackle THE most intriguing question of all head on: Is the self /consciousness REAL, meaning independant of any physical setup, or is it “just a bunch of neurons“..
Like Sue Blackmore , I started out being completely confident that it was only a matter of time before credible evidence would emerge, to the effect that the self /consciousness is a lot more than “nothing but..”, – but – alas – like her, the deeper I probed into this mystery, the more sceptical I became..
In this process, I have dismissed the philosophical position of “idealism“, – the belief that consciousness is THE fundamental fabric of nature, and philosophical materialism / physicalism has always appeared to me to be an utterly absurd belief. I mean, – what is the point of a universe not knowing it is a universe.. , and, – indeed, – unaware of existing at all ?!
I am not a dualist either, – I simply dislike the idea of a playground for God and Angels, the spiritual realm, and a less subtle, material world for lesser creatures.
The Blue Brain Project is an attempt to create a synthetic brain, and I was listening to the director, Henry Markram, explaining the ideas behind this amazing project : A Brain in a Supercomputer
Actually I found his talk surprisingly boring, but then, at the end of the talk, he suddenly suggested that “The Universe may have evolved the brain to see itself, to become aware of itself“..
Now THAT is the kind of talk that is pleasing to my ears and – indeed – my “heart and soul”, and, in particular, when it comes from a top-scientist ! – This idea poses, of course, a number of questions, like, for instance: how would the Universe, being initially unaware of itself, know it was a good idea to evolve the brain, in order to.., etc. ??
Ok, – a baby, not even yet born, “knows” too, that it must develope and expand the brain, you may say.., – no mystery there.., – but are we not implying PURPOSE here, for the Universe as well as for the baby..
I’m stressing this point, because it is the position of most scientists /physicalists, that life happened by CHANCE, and that it is without purpose, at least in any deeper sense, other than each part, – say, an arm, – being functional, in relation to the whole.. , in accordance with the theory of evolution.
As you can understand, I DO NOT believe life happened by chance and that it is without any deeper purpose. I totally reject nihilism , and view consciousness as being hardwired into the fabric of nature.
My position, then, is that neither mind nor matter is exclusively fundamental, and that one is not dependant on the other. Rather, – existence is of a unified, intertwined, psycho-physical, or, – if you like, – physico-mental, – nature.
To be continued.. – In the meantime, watch A Brain in a Supercomputer:
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Check this 2 ASTONISHING lectures of Henry Markram:
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(watch them in full screen)
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Lecture 1:
http://neuroinformatics2008.org/congress-movies/Henry%20Markram.flv/view
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Lecture 2:
http://ditwww.epfl.ch/cgi-perl/EPFLTV/home.pl?page=start_video&lang=2&connected=0&id=365&video_type=10&win_close=0
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Very interesting article from the ‘Seed’ magazine:
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http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/out_of_the_blue
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http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/out_of_the_blue/P2
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And a few more interesting links about the project:
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/8012496.stm
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Thank you very much, – I will watch and read all when I can find the time. I am a hard-working labourer and family-man, who comes home exhausted 5 days a week, and despite my deep interest in all things transhumanistic, I would not be prepared to experiment with any memory-, brain-, energy- and so forth enhancing techniques, even given the chance, – for the time being anyway.., – so, – like most, – or all…, – humans, I’ll just have to cope with these biological limitations..
ASTONISHINC lectures.. – This word, – astonishing , – reminds me of Francis Crick’s “The Astonishing Hypothesis”, – the “hypothesis” being that we are “nothing but a pack of neurons…
You’re welcome man :-)
At least find the time to watch Lecture 2, it’s truly ASTONISHING, don’t forget to watch it in full screen.
You will like it, I’m sure.
(then watch lecture 1)
I watched and listened to Henry Markram’s lecture 2, and yes, I liked it, and I do miss the University Lecture Hall.. : (
I can’t say though, that I found it astonishing. I have the deepest respect for these highly intelligent and hardworking neuroscientists, and it is probably true that in order to solve the hard problem (of consciousness), – as defined by David Chalmers, – you will need to first solve the “easy” problems, – i. e. – computational / neural mechanisms etc.
I guess, however, that personally I am just too lazy, – and probably also not smart enough.. , – for those HOW-questions, so what really turns me on is when they start adressing the WHY-questions, as when Markram speculated about the purpose of awareness: Enabling the Universe to see / experience itself ?!….
The workings of the brain are astonishing, no question, but the truly ASTONISHING aspect is awareness itself and the “ghost in the machine”. – I took special notice, therefore, of Markram’s “mischievous smile”, (Seed Magazine interview), when asked if he really thought it was possible “to put a ghost in a machine“? – His reply: “When the machine is built right, the ghost will emerge“..
Now, – that is really beyond my imagination and contrary to what I believe, but it adresses the central and deepest mystery of all, the TRULY ASTONISHING miracle of life / consciousness itself.
So.. – Keep it up, Markram, – ignore the ignorant and the sceptics, – and a little “self-promotion”, if any, is easily forgiven.. { ; – )
“SELF”-promotion.. : )
Hi :-)
I’m glad that at least you liked it, I think that it’s astonishing, and I believe that what they do in this project is the direct way to a truly consciousness intelligent computers, if you don’t know what is it good for, just search in Google about the amazing book of Ray Kurzweil “The Singularity is Near”, and you will understand where is it taking us.
Also, check this out -
Monkey Moves a Robot Hand Using His Mind Only:
If you want a short summary about the Singularity, watch this:
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
Fine links, – thanks again !
Yep, – Kurzweil is cool, and I’ve been keeping an eye on him.. : ) – I haven’t read “The Singularity is Near”, but now that you mention the book, check this out: ( It is a quote from a newsletter I received just 10 days ago) :
KurzweilAI.net is Pleased to Announce:
The Singularity is Near, A True Story About the Future. Documentary Film by Inventor, Futurist Ray Kurzweil Makes International Premiere at the Montreal World Film Festival on August 31
It is a film I intend to see when I get the chance – (and find the time !) – and I also intend to see the 2009 film about Kurzweil : “Transcendent Man“.
I did read an interview: Ray Kurzweil: The H+ Interview (If you haven’t noticed, I am linking to H+, and my blog is serving RSS Feeds from this truly inspiring magazine).
I am really exited about all this futuristic stuff, but when it comes to conscious machines / computers.. , – Nope, – that is where I join ranks with the sceptics.., – but I will surely stay open-minded..
Thanks for the link with Ray Kurzweil interview, I kept it in my Favorites for later reading this week, and no, I didn’t know that you heard about Kurzweil or about the singularity, good to know that you are on the right side of the group :-)
Yes I know about this 2 movies and I’m also waiting for them for almost 2 years now… specially for the movie “The Singularity Is Near”, but I doubt that they will be as good as the book…
Conscious machines/computers will be here, don’t have any doubt about that, our brains ARE the ultimate proof that a matter when building in the right way, can think, just like that birds 200 years ago where proof that things heavier than air can take off and fly, long before we built our first airplanes.
There is no magic or any mysticism in our brain, when we understand it (and that’s starting to happen right now in many places in the world) WE WILL be able to build a copy of it on a computer, I’m sure about it with 100%.
In the last 2 years you can see more and more applications that are doing things that till not so long ago where unique only to humans: For example the new feature in YouTube that translate automatically (in seconds) the whole Audio in the movie to Text, digital cameras that not only recognize people faces which is amazing by itself, but now they also recognize cats and dogs (the Z700) , applications that can look at a picture and tell you here you have a dog, here there is a cat, here is a hourse, or a car, or a bicycle…. man, that is amazing! if you told someone 3 years ago that computers will be able to do this stuff he would laugh at you and tell you that it’s a funny joke, computers will never be able to look at a picture and recognize a dog or a cat…. but now it’s the reality, and everybody take it for granted.
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“Who am I?” is indeed the fundamental question !! The question at the root, (but not the cause of sufferings – the Buddha still has that one sussed), of all our sufferings and troubles !! the reason why we humans are sooooo inquisitive !! Indeed as you say, most likely the underlying root question that drives all the major human sciences, and the subconscious reason why people choose to follow careers in science?
Hu?-Man suffers from an underlying identity crises, and it is merely natural consequence as we struggle to reconcile our own intelligence and intellect? We know from modern psychology that the ego is manifest, and can be many faceted, a masque that we wear and which mirrors the circumstance we find ourselves in, and the people we meet and react with. Yet the ego is us is it not? My ego is ME! The apparition of reflexive consciousness?
The Buddha says that I am the “five aggregates”
1. Body, (gross – brain, senses)
2. Sensations, (qualia)
3. Apperception’s, (perceptions + memory of experiences)
4. Volition’s, (free will is limited and driven by the subconscious!)
5. Consciousness, (ah.. what is consciousness?)
I really do believe that consciousness is fundamental phenomenon that drives energy-matter interactions, and that every thing is layers of consciousness interactions. That unfathomable complexity gives rise to the miraculous Universe and “inner” universe that has evolved the brain and mind. “Consciousness of consciousness” is what we are? The Universe has evolved to become conscious of it-self through us!!
Bravo!
For thousands of years.. small children have been lining up to ask wise men and seers and rishi’s a very simple and fundamental question… “who am I?”
For thousands of years.. religions have been attempting to answer the “key question”. And we really need to ditch some of these antiquated and quite barbaric religious doctrines, (yes.. you know the one’s, and most every one does agree!)
If you only knew how I drive them so mad over at IEET with the fundamental question.. !!
What we need is not another new age spiritual movement, (yawns!). What we need is for everyone to embrace the fundamental question, realise the awesome-ness of creation and the Universe, and realise that we are all a part of the “whole”. That we are all integral and that “connectedness” is undeniable! – and also some solid, reliable, existentialism and realisation that we are all responsible for ourselves, how we think and act, and how we can transform the future.
Hinduism, which is a very diverse religion as you know, has an inspiring proclamation that I feel lies at the heart and the future of man’s spiritual and ethical evolution.. UNITY THROUGH DIVERSITY. That no matter what belief system you follow, as long as you understand and embrace “connectedness” to each other and to the Universe, then we humans “can” live together with acceptance and tolerance. This wisdom far excels any Judeo-Christian-Islamic monotheistic doctrine, which places all hopes and dreams in a life hereafter. This is why I favour the “philosophy” of advaita, (specifically), and Buddhism.
Is this all a big bang accident? Is the evolution of life and the complex mind purely accidental?
Well, again we are in alignment.. I am not saying for sure that creation was intentional, but also feel that the Universe has evolved thus because of “logical purposeful direction”, and continues to evolve towards a more complex and layered awareness, (phenomenological consciousness). There is one word worthy of contemplation and which lies at the heart of all creation past, present and future – “potential”.
Are humans destined to create robots, cyborgs, AGI and then merge with them? I say yes indeed.. because the idea is already out there man! You can’t stop it now! Humans as Homo-sapiens may not exist in the form we know for many more centuries/decades. Like most species we are either, doomed if we do not evolve or overcome existential risks, or destined to become more than what we are already through our technology, (we can’t wait around for evolution.. too slow).
Struggling with what transhumanism actually stands for and how far it goes?
Then you are not alone! I’m still not sure what it really means objectively, so best thing is to deduce what it means for me now and also keep an open mind towards new ideas. I AM NOT A CYLON YET! (I think?) and don’t much care to be.
There is loads of stuff over at IEET.org and I hope you will bring your ideas and churn it all up and get folks debating.
A few hints and writers that you may find interesting..
Hank, (as you know comical and controversial), Russell Blackford, (ethics, objective morality, multiculturalism, human rights), Mike Treder, (ethics and environment), David Brin, (positivist, visionary and solution seeker), Kris Notaro (Human rights, philosophy of mind), Martine Rothblatt, (mind uploading proponent and visionary), James Hughes, (Buddhist and ethicist).. and more..
Ps. you have a great blog here, enjoyable reading, and I appreciate your frankness.. keep up the good work! Thanks for all the links.
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